5. Discussion Forum on Extreme Poverty

poverty

poverty

by Deleted user -
Number of replies: 6

I do not think that Francis suffered extreme poverty, rather he choose the condition of poverty which allowed him to live in the world with the poor and thus go from gospel to life to gospel.  I sometimes think that Francis was the first Secular, showing us how to live and work and pray in the world.  He was a brother to everyone, be they rich or poor.

peace and good

anne

In reply to Deleted user

Re: poverty

by Patrick Mayo -

Hi Anne,

That's what Br. Flood was saying.  Especially once Francis was with the community of Brothers he was never poor in the sense of having no social support.  But Francis did see what happened to people who were poor.  When Francis was captured in battle, many of the poor around him were killed.  Francis was kept alive because his father was wealthy enough to pay a ransom.  To be poor was to be literally be disposable. Francis realized that Jesus was also ministered to the marginalized in his time, the poor, the sick, the ritualistically impure.  Francis didn't want people to live and suffery misery in extreme poverty and sickness.  He was never poor, and didn't want anyone else to live that way either. This was why he tried to intervene with the Trades Guilds to ask they be fair to the poorer workers, and why he and the Brothers worked in the leprosariums and alms houses.  Some of the beggin in Assisi was not for the brothers themselves, but to remind people in Assisi that they had agreed to support the leprosariums, and alms houses with food, medicine and bandages.  

Thanks Anne,   Peace and All Good,  Pat 

In reply to Patrick Mayo

Re: poverty

by Deleted user -
Hi Pat,

WOW!!! You know I never thought of St. Francis's begging as a means of reminding the towns people of their social responsibility... but it does make sense.

I don't think I ever really fully understood the begging. I understand the idea of making oneself poor and to live simply from that which has been provided, but begging to me seemed like a way of making a living off of others. I guess in coming from a big city and seeing the abuses of those who beg for money downtown TO, it's jaded my thinking.

Thanks for the new perspective!

Thank you Anne for your post as well... I think that's why I feel like I can relate to St. Francis the most because he was living like a Secular. He made a charism that's also at my level, a lay person living in the world, and kept it simple.

Peace and All Good, Niki
In reply to Deleted user

Re: poverty

by Patrick Mayo -
Hi Niki,

Fr./Dr/Br. David Flood OFM, is a Friar who is an historian. He has studied the non-bull rule of Francis, the Assisi charters and Medieval trade guilds. It was written into Assisi's charter to support the leprosariums and alms houses. The early brothers that had a trade are advised in the Rule to keep working, the brothers that volunteered at the leprosariums and alms houses often reported that Assisi failed to provide the support they had promised. Those brothers would go to town and beg not for themselves but for the goods that Assisi had promised to provide. You can imagine how well that was received. These brothers were certainly verbally abused and sometimes physically. They actually begged Francis not to make them go into Assisi. Francis realized that they were on the right track because they were being treated just like the Disciples of Christ. I have one of Br. Flood's book (which is out of Print), but it's a fascinating read!

Pax, Pat
In reply to Patrick Mayo

Re: poverty

by Beverly Silvester -
Hi Pat,
I agree whole heartedly with Anne, in that St. Francis chose poverty.
I still see people begging the "powers that be" today to follow through with their promises. Every time we are forced to sign petitions, go on marches or organize a Sit-In we are in effect begging to be heard. Politicians know their rules cause hardship to someone. A prime example is the rule in Alberta that all food to be served to the public (yes even the homeless) must be cooked in a commercial kitchen. This has hurt our local soup kitchens tremendously for now we have to beg from hotels for food, or beg the use of a commercial kitchen and then transport the food. We are trying to feed people who eat from dumpsters. Whether the food in the dumpster originated from a commercial kitchen is anyone's guess.
Living below my means does not make me poor. Living for myself and never having touched the hand of the lonely, sick and marginalized makes me poor indeed!
In reply to Beverly Silvester

Re: poverty

by Deleted user -
Hi you all,
I do not have anything to add except to say thanks for your contributions to the discussion. We all have a different perspective, but we all see through a Franciscan lens. I learn a lot from you, which is probably why we do this.

Actually, upon reflection, I do have something to say. I think that Pat's bit about the Friars being given a bad time for asking for alms for the poor in Assisi reminds me that being an advocate for the poor frequently leads to being mocked, insulted and worse (killed like Oscar Romero). So when I have to do something for the faith that leads to stress, I realise that actually I have it easy.

Pax et bonum,
Andrew
In reply to Deleted user

Re: poverty

by Deleted user -
I agree Anne. So many of the things we own set us apart from the poor. They precondition us mentally and emotionally to keep the poor and needy away from us out of FEAR. St. Francis discipline of freely chosen poverty enabled him to draw close to and hear what was really on their hearts . Such an approach is like being Jesus King of Kings in cognito...it leads to reality in prayer.

The FI paper recommends human interaction with those most affected by poverty and poor living conditions , rather than strategizing by cold statistical data. This is so much the case I experience in the North where so many decisions are made in Texas, Ottawa, Calgary and Toronto that make decisions with out reference to the people most affected.
I am finding thta some of the extreme poor in the North are youth who have been pampered, left with technology ipods, tvs etc for long hours who have little or no hope or desire to serve anyone in the future. So many drop out of school in our communities before reaching grade 12. How can progarms be designed without building relationships with them? I find this even with parents who are bringing their teens for confirmation. There is work to be done !!

Just a few thoughts from your Hay River family

Pax et Bonum
Fr. Don+